Are We Getting Dumber?

[ernest_t_bass]

I heard a woman on the radio this morning (Sylvan Learning Center) and she was talking about kids and homework. "As we know, homework keeps getting harder." was pretty close to what she said.

My question... Are our kids/parents getting dumber, or is the schoolwork actually getting tougher? I know that people have stated that schools are changing the way they do Math (can't add to this discussion, b/c I've never seen or heard of it) but is the school work actually getting tougher?

I think we're getting dumber.

We are a "go find your answer over there" society, in my opinion. Go look on the internet, etc.

I am a teacher, but I am not a core teacher. I teach HS business, so I really don't have much involvement in the core subjects. As far as "business" goes, I know that the stuff has not gotten any harder.

What say you?

[I Wear Pants]

We're not getting dumber and the work isn't getting harder.

[Apple]

I agree that it's not getting harder. I would, however, say there has definitely been a systematic dumbing down of students as liberalism has crept into and taken over the education system.

I would also say that the overall rejection of exceptionalism while promoting the need for fairness by liberal educators has been detrimental to the education of our children and has fostered a more entitlement mentality by our youth.

[cbus4life]

Only two posts before someone blamed liberals for our kids becoming dumber!!

What a joke.

[Apple]

cbus-
sometimes the truth hurts.

[believer]

^^^+1

[Gobuckeyes1]

Liberal this, liberal that....blame the liberals...and follow Rush and Hannity and Beck and do exactly as they say. That way you don't have to do any thinking on your own...they can just tell you what to think. Makes it nice and easy.

[ytownfootball]

So someone tell me whose responsible for changing "how" things are taught, the methodology.

My 10 year old comes home with math homework and the method is not anything like we were taught. She's confused on how answers are obtained until I show her how I was taught and you see the light bulb come on.

"Why do WE have to do it like this and show how we got the answer?"

Homework is harder because parents can't teach the same methods they learned, they are required to study a fourth graders teaching method and then assist them in their "new methodology"

It's bullshit and frustrating, not only for my fourth grader but for me as well.

Money seems to be being spent more on changing the methods as opposed to teaching proven methods better.

Whose fault is that? I have my suspicions.

[Tinkertrain]

Homework is harder because we are forcing kids to do thing's earlier.

[Riddler]

I dont think so. i get homescooled and i luv it.

[ptown_trojans_1]

I don't think so. I think people are better at multitasking and utilizing technology.

[Riddler]

I don't think so. I think people are better at multitasking and utilizing technology.


Funny you should say that :)

[ernest_t_bass]

I don't think so. I think people are better at multitasking and utilizing technology.


My opinion, and I hope to have my source tomorrow (it's at work), is that "multi-tasking" is never a positive thing. Kids "think" they can multi-task, but they actually can't.

[eersandbeers]

As far as high school students, I think we are getting dumber. I was so unprepared for college and lacked the basic math, science, and English skills that I possess today. We aren't teaching history (which is a benefit for the government), and kids are generally unaware of all world events. Basically American high school students, in general, are stupid.

Past that, we have more high school students than ever attending higher education institutions. What that means and how that changes things..who knows?

[Apple]

Liberal this, liberal that....blame the liberals...and follow Rush and Hannity and Beck and do exactly as they say. That way you don't have to do any thinking on your own...they can just tell you what to think. Makes it nice and easy.


So that is how you formulate your opinions? So sad...

For me, I formulate my opinions by staying more informed than with one source and one point of view.

The answer to this op's question is a no-brainer. It's as obvious as the Speaker of the House, the Senate majority leader, the Oval Office, the teachers unions and the liberal socialist academia instructors in higher education today.

[hasbeen]

I'm a math education major and I've observed in a 6th grade classroom and a 9th grade classroom. A lot of the methods they are teaching for the most basic mathematical things are very strange. The way they teach multiplication and things are silly and useless later in life. So the 6th graders were being taught something and then the 9th grade teachers have to re-teach it in a way that doesn't require them to do some stupid method so they can do the more advanced math(i.e. algebra).

Another big thing missing, is number tricks. They flat out aren't being taught consistently enough. How do you know if a number is divisible by 3? Add the values together and if that number is divisible by 3 than it is. i.e. is 142 divisible by 3? 1+4+2=7. 7 is not divisible by 3 so neither is 142. I had 1 kid say they knew about this trick. That's bad.

Another thing the kids lacked was the idea for mental math to put everything into tens. What is 14x8? Well 14x10=140 then subtract 2*14=140-28=112.

The way these things are being taught are like we all were and frankly, they aren't better methods.

[ts1227]

We are a "go find your answer over there" society, in my opinion. Go look on the internet, etc.


How is this problematic? Information is more readily available; going to locate this information makes one resourceful, not dumb.

[Footwedge]

I agree that it's not getting harder. I would, however, say there has definitely been a systematic dumbing down of students as liberalism has crept into and taken over the education system.

I would also say that the overall rejection of exceptionalism while promoting the need for fairness by liberal educators has been detrimental to the education of our children and has fostered a more entitlement mentality by our youth.


I think that the OP, a business instructor, is not a liberal. I would also say that he is very open minded and offers a lot to these political boards. I'm not saying that to score any points with him, in that he doesn't agree with how I view a lot of things.

[hoops23]

This is exactly WHY I say politics are the downfall of this country... Instead of working together, we'd rather blast the other side...

GANG WAR. Red vs blue, crips vs bloods...

all it is.

[ernest_t_bass]

We are a "go find your answer over there" society, in my opinion. Go look on the internet, etc.


How is this problematic? Information is more readily available; going to locate this information makes one resourceful, not dumb.


They're kids. They don't always use the most resourceful (and reliable) way, but the easiest.

[Gobuckeyes1]

Liberal this, liberal that....blame the liberals...and follow Rush and Hannity and Beck and do exactly as they say. That way you don't have to do any thinking on your own...they can just tell you what to think. Makes it nice and easy.


So that is how you formulate your opinions? So sad...

For me, I formulate my opinions by staying more informed than with one source and one point of view.

The answer to this op's question is a no-brainer. It's as obvious as the Speaker of the House, the Senate majority leader, the Oval Office, the teachers unions and the liberal socialist academia instructors in higher education today.


The reason I said what I said is because your post sounded just like something you would hear on talk radio. Liberal this, liberal that, socialist this, marxist that, blah blah blah...

Conservatism doesn't have all of the answers...neither does liberalism. Conversely, liberalism isn't to blame for all of our problems...neither is conservatism. Any time some starts blaming one side or the other for all of our problems, I generally dismiss them as a partisan fool.

If this really is such a "no-brainer" as you suggest, then you should be able to provide some facts and research backing up your opinion. Your indictment of our elected officials means nothing because the same could be said for the previous administration.

[CenterBHSFan]

I think it is a very common misconception for alot of people to think that conservatives get their talking points from the tv or radio. That may be true in some cases, I don't know, but in general I would say no.

I mean think about it.
Liberals aren't getting their talking points from Nancy Pelosi are they?
No. (at least I hope not haha)
So, I don't know why people automatically think that conservatives get their talking points from _____________.

Personally, I was very liberal up to about my mid-twenties. I changed my views from life experience and paying attention to the political happenings going on at the time.

[ernest_t_bass]

and I hope to have my source tomorrow (it's at work), is that "multi-tasking" is never a positive thing.

http://blogs.saschina.org/bknowles/2009/09/30/multitasking-a-human-delusion/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95256794

WebMD

http://www.webmd.com/balance/guide/20070201/multitasking-hurts-learning

[Apple]

...If this really is such a "no-brainer" as you suggest, then you should be able to provide some facts and research backing up your opinion...

Does personal experience count in you world? ...Like being married to a then college education major and then high school teacher for 14 years? Having children who went to both Catholic grade school then public high school? What about having taught college classes and dealing with colleagues and college administrators?

I don't need to read some scholar's published article to know how f'd-up the education system is due to liberalism, I've freaking personally seen it for myself and experienced it!!! So yes, to me it is most assuredly a no-brainer!!!

[cbus4life]

Well, based on my personal experience, i would have to disagree!

I had a History professor in college who was a liberal, and was even a former labor organizer in South America. But he was the most balanced, thoughtful professor i had, and the conservative kids loved him in class, he fostered debate, and valued their opinion. Same as another liberal professor who was friends with Ginsberg, Kerouac, etc. back in the day, so was obviously rather liberal, but was also loved by the conservative kids, and was as balanced as they come.

My fiancee is a PhD candidate at the University of Michigan, and teaches there as well, and she does not have any of the horror stories you have, and is quite pleased with both the liberal and conservative academics she comes across.

Having spent 6+ years in a university setting for both undergraduate and graduate school, i can't think of one person who showed liberal bias, had an obvious liberal slant, etc. I taught a few undergraduate courses as well, and interacted with other professors on a daily basis.

I had wonderful history teachers and government teachers in high school, and was exposed to numerous different viewpoints.

I was most definitely prepared for college, after leaving high school.

So, i've "personally seen it for myself and experienced it," as well, and it is a no brainer that this can not all be blamed on liberals, socialists in the classroom, etc.

It isn't as cut-and-dry as you make it out to be.

I simply blame it on bad teachers, liberal, conservative, it doesn't matter. Everyone has seen their fair share of both. Use common sense.

[CenterBHSFan]

Cbus,

If there was a liberal biased in your experience from school, would you notice it - being "liberal" yourself? I'm just asking, there's no "gotcha" coming LOL

[I Wear Pants]

Hell, I could learn almost everything I have in two years of college from wikipedia if I was so inclined.

Information is freely and readily available to those who want it now. It's a great thing.

Oh, and it's totally the liberals fault. Clearly ruined everything. I mean look at their massive failure of an education bill "No Child Left Behind". Oh wait...

[Cleveland Buck]

Our schools are dumbed down to give everyone a chance to 'succeed', so they are putting idiots out into the real world. Call it whatever you want and blame whoever you want.

[ernest_t_bass]

I don't think the schools are dumbed down. The procedures of pass/fail are watered down.

[ytownfootball]

I don't think the schools are dumbed down. The procedures of pass/fail are watered down.


The procedures of pass/fail have the end result of schools being dumbed down.

I see very few posts that are bourne of real experience. A lot of what I see posted is the result of lecture and ideology.

What is the effect of the newer methodologies mandated by states as required course curriculum?

What are the benefits/drawbacks of tenure status and teacher unions in a publicly funded entity?

What mechanics are in place to require instructor accountablity and improvement?

Are there any programs in place that reward instructor effectiveness?

Are federal testing mandates holding back the majority of students capable of moving forward?

[Sonofanump]

The answer to this question is really easy.

Go to Walmart and imagine the people you see there breeding.

[Apple]

^^^ I just threw up a little bit in my mouth...

[NYBuckeye96]

I think there are two problems with education in the US.........

1. Standardized tests. Teachers can no longer "teach". Rather, they must prepare students to answer the questions they will find on standardized tests.

2. Parental reliance on teachers to teach kids everything they need to know. When I was growing up, my parents always provided me with outside resources for education.......books to read, trips to museums/historic sites, etc. I think it is the responsibility of parents to help fill in the gaps that teachers can't.

Someone mentioned earlier that history isn't appropriately taught in schools. I agree with this, but it is so easy for kids to be exposed to history. Especially in this day and age. I just did a quick youtube search for the collapse of the berlin wall in '89 and found dozens of video archives of the event. If your kid isn't being taught about the fall of communism in the 80s (or any other subject) then the parents should sit down with their child and do simple things like an internet search on the topic. Parents need to take a proactive role in education for their children.

[majorspark]

I think there are two problems with education in the US.........

1. Standardized tests. Teachers can no longer "teach". Rather, they must prepare students to answer the questions they will find on standardized tests.

2. Parental reliance on teachers to teach kids everything they need to know. When I was growing up, my parents always provided me with outside resources for education.......books to read, trips to museums/historic sites, etc. I think it is the responsibility of parents to help fill in the gaps that teachers can't.

Someone mentioned earlier that history isn't appropriately taught in schools. I agree with this, but it is so easy for kids to be exposed to history. Especially in this day and age. I just did a quick youtube search for the collapse of the berlin wall in '89 and found dozens of video archives of the event. If your kid isn't being taught about the fall of communism in the 80s (or any other subject) then the parents should sit down with their child and do simple things like an internet search on the topic. Parents need to take a proactive role in education for their children.


You are correct. Parents need to take a more proactive role. They can be the trump card when it comes to shortcomings in their childrens education. I have called my kids to watch a few youtube videos myself. We watched, discussed, and they learned.

[sleeper]

I know liberals are getting dumber, just look at the election of this CLOWN Obama.

That is all.

[Gobuckeyes1]

...If this really is such a "no-brainer" as you suggest, then you should be able to provide some facts and research backing up your opinion...

Does personal experience count in you world? ...Like being married to a then college education major and then high school teacher for 14 years? Having children who went to both Catholic grade school then public high school? What about having taught college classes and dealing with colleagues and college administrators?

I don't need to read some scholar's published article to know how f'd-up the education system is due to liberalism, I've freaking personally seen it for myself and experienced it!!! So yes, to me it is most assuredly a no-brainer!!!


My personal experience from having taught in public schools for nine years is that there is no systemic liberal bias there. More of my colleagues are conservative than liberal, and there is no liberal brainwashing program in place. I teach in a rural public high school, so the community tends to be more conservative as a whole, which would make flaming liberal biases stand out even more. It just isn't there.

The driving force in education over the past decade has been No Child Left Behind, and that sure as hell isn't a liberal mandate. Education is no different than any other area of society...there conservatives, liberals, and moderates, and the majority of them do their jobs well and aren't pushing an agenda.

[Sonofanump]

I teach in a rural public high school, so the community tends to be more conservative as a whole, which would make flaming liberal biases stand out even more. It just isn't there.

I bet (actually I know this to be true based on my experience) that you see the exact opposite in most metro school districts.

[Captain Cavalier]

My 10 year old comes home with math homework and the method is not anything like we were taught. She's confused on how answers are obtained until I show her how I was taught and you see the light bulb come on.



Homework is harder because we are forcing kids to do thing's earlier.



The procedures of pass/fail have the end result of schools being dumbed down.

Agreed



As far as high school students, I think we are getting dumber. I was so unprepared for college and lacked the basic math, science, and English skills that I possess today. We aren't teaching history (which is a benefit for the government), and kids are generally unaware of all world events. Basically American high school students, in general, are stupid.

Would a better word be ignorant?


What mechanics are in place to require instructor accountablity and improvement? Are there any programs in place that reward instructor effectiveness?

I've always wondered that myself. If a teacher's students get an average of a B+ with a 4 year degree then goes and gets their masters and the students still get a B+ average, what justifies paying them more just because they have a masters?


2. Parental reliance on teachers to teach kids everything they need to know. When I was growing up, my parents always provided me with outside resources for education.......books to read, trips to museums/historic sites, etc. I think it is the responsibility of parents to help fill in the gaps that teachers can't. Parents need to take a proactive role in education for their children.


It's starts at home. If parents rely totally on the "system" to educate their children and don't interact, they shouldn't be surprised if their children lag behind.

[HitsRus]

Coming from a family of teachers past and present, there is a general feeling that that college education departments are bastions of liberal thought and teaching methods. E. g....whole language vs phonics...social skills vs the 3R's. More time is allocated teaching diversity and focusing on self esteem...not enough on basic math, science and reading skills.

[Gobuckeyes1]

It's starts at home. If parents rely totally on the "system" to educate their children and don't interact, they shouldn't be surprised if their children lag behind.

"This" x 1000

Don't blame one ideology or the other for shortcomings in your child's education. If you totally entrust your child's education to a stranger (who may be liberal or conservative...doesn't matter) you are bound to be disappointed.

[redstreak one]

I have a 6 year old son just halfway through his kindergarten year. He can read at the 1st grade level, count to 200, by 1's, 2's, 5's, and 10's. He can add and subtract single digit numbers and multiply the digits 1-5. I have a 3 year old daughter that my wife and I work with everyday as well. No dumbing down on the individuals part, but the educational system as a whole is an ever changing beast.

As someone stated earlier, if parents take charge, their children will be ready for anything!

[cbus4life]

Cbus,

If there was a liberal biased in your experience from school, would you notice it - being "liberal" yourself? I'm just asking, there's no "gotcha" coming LOL


Yes, i would, because, i like to think, i'm intelligent enough and aware enough to notice. I know what it means to be "liberal" and would recognize a professor slanting too far to that side.

I really think this whole complaint at the academic level is overblown.

Yes, i do not disagree that there are more liberal than conservative professors in college.

But, that does not mean, as a result, that those professors are espousing their own views in the classroom, at the expense of other views.

As my own experience dictates, i've had numerous who, outside of their classroom, are incredibly liberal, but inside the classroom, are as balanced as they come.